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	Comments on: Focus On The Japan vs China Rare Earths Saga Misses The Point	</title>
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	<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/</link>
	<description>Commentary &#38; analysis on rare earths and other technology metals</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 06:02:31 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Henk Mol		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-584</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henk Mol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2010 06:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-584</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dear Gareth and Jack
Thanks a lot for the analysis. You help us fiind the answers by getting facts first hand - thereby putting the things in the right perspective. Being an engineer for a company that makes components that find their way in cars, electric motors etc I am working dayly with the question why customers use REE magnets, which magnets they use, and what volume or quality trends they have. Unfortunately I was not in the opportunity to visit the conf in Slovenia. I hope to learn about the applications, trends, and technology on the EVS25 in Shenzhen. Thanks !  
Regards, Henk Mol]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Gareth and Jack<br />
Thanks a lot for the analysis. You help us fiind the answers by getting facts first hand &#8211; thereby putting the things in the right perspective. Being an engineer for a company that makes components that find their way in cars, electric motors etc I am working dayly with the question why customers use REE magnets, which magnets they use, and what volume or quality trends they have. Unfortunately I was not in the opportunity to visit the conf in Slovenia. I hope to learn about the applications, trends, and technology on the EVS25 in Shenzhen. Thanks !<br />
Regards, Henk Mol</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gareth Hatch		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-580</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gareth Hatch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 14:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-580</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you for the additional comments folks.

Henk: a couple of points: my information is that Japan / Japanese companies actually have a significant stockpile of dysprosium that would last them for several months if supplies were to remain cut off. Interestingly the rare earth that they are most short of is samarium, used in the samarium-cobalt magnets for various high temperature applications. It&#039;s interesting to me because samarium remains just about the cheapest of the rare earths in the market.

Regarding work that the Japanese are doing to reduce usage of dysprosium: they have been working for a number of years, in a number of research groups, on this very challenge. Work was presented at the Rare Earth Permanent Magnet Workshop at the beginning of September 2010 in Slovenia, on this and other subjects. Coercivity is maintained, but less dysprosium is used; the dysprosium that is used, is skillfully placed at the grain boundaries of the main 2-14-1 magnetic phase, where it is of most use in combating demagnetization from heat or other energy sources. By placing the dysprosium preferentially in this manner, less of it is needed in the initial alloy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the additional comments folks.</p>
<p>Henk: a couple of points: my information is that Japan / Japanese companies actually have a significant stockpile of dysprosium that would last them for several months if supplies were to remain cut off. Interestingly the rare earth that they are most short of is samarium, used in the samarium-cobalt magnets for various high temperature applications. It&#8217;s interesting to me because samarium remains just about the cheapest of the rare earths in the market.</p>
<p>Regarding work that the Japanese are doing to reduce usage of dysprosium: they have been working for a number of years, in a number of research groups, on this very challenge. Work was presented at the Rare Earth Permanent Magnet Workshop at the beginning of September 2010 in Slovenia, on this and other subjects. Coercivity is maintained, but less dysprosium is used; the dysprosium that is used, is skillfully placed at the grain boundaries of the main 2-14-1 magnetic phase, where it is of most use in combating demagnetization from heat or other energy sources. By placing the dysprosium preferentially in this manner, less of it is needed in the initial alloy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Henk Mol		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-579</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henk Mol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 10:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-579</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Note that it is NOT about rare-earths being not available for magnets! It is about the problem that Dysprosium is much less found than Neodymium, so much more difficult to hoard. You need it in certain applications to get high strength magnets under adverse conditions.
Japan recognised that it is dependent on the import of in particular heavy rare earths and contrary to the rest of the world they really go deep into finding ways to become less dependent on it. The recent import problem for the japanese seems not about bulk lantanum, preasodynium, cerium or neodymium which they may have stockpiled, but about dysprosium, europium and similar elements. That they work on a way to mitigate their problem, is clear. In a press release on 30 August 2010 their NIMS - Magnetic Materials Centre they reported a method to process Nd2Fe14B such that they need significantly less or nearly no Dysprosium. It is however not clear wether the high temperature coercitivity is improved, as Dy is substitution, up to 15% of Nd replaced, is used for making magnets that work in the electric motors of EVs and HEVs at 150 - 180 deg celcius. Anyone has follow up on that? Regards Henk]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note that it is NOT about rare-earths being not available for magnets! It is about the problem that Dysprosium is much less found than Neodymium, so much more difficult to hoard. You need it in certain applications to get high strength magnets under adverse conditions.<br />
Japan recognised that it is dependent on the import of in particular heavy rare earths and contrary to the rest of the world they really go deep into finding ways to become less dependent on it. The recent import problem for the japanese seems not about bulk lantanum, preasodynium, cerium or neodymium which they may have stockpiled, but about dysprosium, europium and similar elements. That they work on a way to mitigate their problem, is clear. In a press release on 30 August 2010 their NIMS &#8211; Magnetic Materials Centre they reported a method to process Nd2Fe14B such that they need significantly less or nearly no Dysprosium. It is however not clear wether the high temperature coercitivity is improved, as Dy is substitution, up to 15% of Nd replaced, is used for making magnets that work in the electric motors of EVs and HEVs at 150 &#8211; 180 deg celcius. Anyone has follow up on that? Regards Henk</p>
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		<title>
		By: chris		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-556</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-556</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I just saw a commercial for dyson.com vacuum&#039;s that said &quot; we use Neodymium magnets in our digital motor &quot;.

Would be nice to see this catch on like Lithium-ion phrase has.

Went to website and looked and it&#039;s in the bottom of the page #3.

http://www.dyson.com/technology/ddmTabbed.asp?tab=where]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just saw a commercial for dyson.com vacuum&#8217;s that said &#8221; we use Neodymium magnets in our digital motor &#8220;.</p>
<p>Would be nice to see this catch on like Lithium-ion phrase has.</p>
<p>Went to website and looked and it&#8217;s in the bottom of the page #3.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dyson.com/technology/ddmTabbed.asp?tab=where" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.dyson.com/technology/ddmTabbed.asp?tab=where</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: fran		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-555</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fran]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-555</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[the world has yet to awaken to the presence of a second hegemonic player on the global stage.  one that knows well both ends of KOWTOW.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the world has yet to awaken to the presence of a second hegemonic player on the global stage.  one that knows well both ends of KOWTOW.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JAY BIRGE		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-554</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JAY BIRGE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-554</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Quid-pro-quo comes in many forms!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quid-pro-quo comes in many forms!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eamon Keane		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-553</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eamon Keane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-553</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great article. 

If you read this excerpt from the origins of the formation of the IEA, and replace oil with rare earths, the parallels are striking [1].

&quot;During the Middle East War crisis of 1973-1974, the main industrial
countries became painfully aware of their vulnerability to the new
economic power of the oil producer countries. For the industrial countries, the sting in that crisis derived from their sudden need to respond to the oil embargo by a number of Arab producers and from the price spike that too oil prices rapidly to historic and damagingly high levels. Perhaps even more troublesome, however, was the realization that, having accepted for some years the short-term luxury of growing oil import dependence, the industrial countries were themselves largely responsible for the very predicament in which they suddenly found themselves.

As discomforting as that realization might have been at the time, it
became the wellspring of the industrial countries’ response and was a
necessary step in building the new institutional systems which could
make the problems more manageable. One promising element was the
notion that if those countries bore their share of the responsibility for
causing the crisis, they might find within themselves the means of
resolving or controlling the situation in the future. Their contributions to
the extent of the crisis had included excessive reliance on oil generally
and imported oil in particular, insufficient investment in indigenous oil
exploration and exploitation, in diversification of energy sources and in
the development of energy technologies. To this list must be added weak conservation and energy efficiency measures, inadequate collection and use of data on the operation of the oil market and the absence of arrangements for workable systems of oil supply shortfall management.

Increasing the industrial countries’ vulnerability still further was their
capstone failure to organize themselves properly by means of institutions designed to deal successfully with those problems and others to come in the years ahead.&quot;

The only question is, where are we now? I&#039;d hazard a guess at 1971. We know what the future holds, yet perhaps we need an actual crisis to galvanize collective action.

[1] IEA, &quot;The History of the IEA 1974-1994 Vol I&quot;, 1994, Available from: http://www.iea.org/textbase/nppdf/free/1990/1-ieahistory.pdf]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article. </p>
<p>If you read this excerpt from the origins of the formation of the IEA, and replace oil with rare earths, the parallels are striking [1].</p>
<p>&#8220;During the Middle East War crisis of 1973-1974, the main industrial<br />
countries became painfully aware of their vulnerability to the new<br />
economic power of the oil producer countries. For the industrial countries, the sting in that crisis derived from their sudden need to respond to the oil embargo by a number of Arab producers and from the price spike that too oil prices rapidly to historic and damagingly high levels. Perhaps even more troublesome, however, was the realization that, having accepted for some years the short-term luxury of growing oil import dependence, the industrial countries were themselves largely responsible for the very predicament in which they suddenly found themselves.</p>
<p>As discomforting as that realization might have been at the time, it<br />
became the wellspring of the industrial countries’ response and was a<br />
necessary step in building the new institutional systems which could<br />
make the problems more manageable. One promising element was the<br />
notion that if those countries bore their share of the responsibility for<br />
causing the crisis, they might find within themselves the means of<br />
resolving or controlling the situation in the future. Their contributions to<br />
the extent of the crisis had included excessive reliance on oil generally<br />
and imported oil in particular, insufficient investment in indigenous oil<br />
exploration and exploitation, in diversification of energy sources and in<br />
the development of energy technologies. To this list must be added weak conservation and energy efficiency measures, inadequate collection and use of data on the operation of the oil market and the absence of arrangements for workable systems of oil supply shortfall management.</p>
<p>Increasing the industrial countries’ vulnerability still further was their<br />
capstone failure to organize themselves properly by means of institutions designed to deal successfully with those problems and others to come in the years ahead.&#8221;</p>
<p>The only question is, where are we now? I&#8217;d hazard a guess at 1971. We know what the future holds, yet perhaps we need an actual crisis to galvanize collective action.</p>
<p>[1] IEA, &#8220;The History of the IEA 1974-1994 Vol I&#8221;, 1994, Available from: <a href="http://www.iea.org/textbase/nppdf/free/1990/1-ieahistory.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.iea.org/textbase/nppdf/free/1990/1-ieahistory.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Nadim Hajjar		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-552</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nadim Hajjar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Sep 2010 06:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-552</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[i was watching these days the rapid increase of the new REE productors share value (LYNAS, MOLYCORP, GWM...), the increase is just impressive. I think that they are using (or creating) the rumors about China&#039;s actions and policies in order to attract new investors. Are we living the creation of a REE bubble? Does China have enough power and operating margin to increase (one day) it&#039;s production again and push the prices down killing the new projects? Maybe i am exagerating a little bit but will the chineese stay cool about new projects and so less monopoly? What is the role of the exporting quotas in the future?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i was watching these days the rapid increase of the new REE productors share value (LYNAS, MOLYCORP, GWM&#8230;), the increase is just impressive. I think that they are using (or creating) the rumors about China&#8217;s actions and policies in order to attract new investors. Are we living the creation of a REE bubble? Does China have enough power and operating margin to increase (one day) it&#8217;s production again and push the prices down killing the new projects? Maybe i am exagerating a little bit but will the chineese stay cool about new projects and so less monopoly? What is the role of the exporting quotas in the future?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wendy D		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-551</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wendy D]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Sep 2010 04:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-551</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think it was Jack that said, a couple of years ago, that non-China users were confident of REE supplies as long as they paid the right price. But that they were now in a situation where they might have to face the fact that REEs would be unavailable at ANY price...

Yet even now there is not the will in governmental and financial circles to finance non-Chinese sources. Every time one of the juniors trying to develop an REE deposit is driven to the market for more money, they have to beg, and accept onerous discounts to market or warrant issues to &quot;sweeten&quot; the deal.  The recent Molycorp float was a case in point. Not only did Molycorp have to reduce their offer price, they STILL couldn&#039;t get it all away. A comment which stuck in my craw was one from a Wall Street institutional investor: &quot;It seems too much to pay...&quot;.

Perhaps he won&#039;t think so when he can&#039;t get a new Blackberry, or his new Prius is delayed, or the green energy projects he is invested in collapse for lack of raw materials...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it was Jack that said, a couple of years ago, that non-China users were confident of REE supplies as long as they paid the right price. But that they were now in a situation where they might have to face the fact that REEs would be unavailable at ANY price&#8230;</p>
<p>Yet even now there is not the will in governmental and financial circles to finance non-Chinese sources. Every time one of the juniors trying to develop an REE deposit is driven to the market for more money, they have to beg, and accept onerous discounts to market or warrant issues to &#8220;sweeten&#8221; the deal.  The recent Molycorp float was a case in point. Not only did Molycorp have to reduce their offer price, they STILL couldn&#8217;t get it all away. A comment which stuck in my craw was one from a Wall Street institutional investor: &#8220;It seems too much to pay&#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>Perhaps he won&#8217;t think so when he can&#8217;t get a new Blackberry, or his new Prius is delayed, or the green energy projects he is invested in collapse for lack of raw materials&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/focus-on-the-japan-vs-china-rare-earths-saga-misses-the-point/#comment-550</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Sep 2010 04:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=1575#comment-550</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot; This is one final question: has China overstepped by ‘stopping’ rare earth shipments however temporarily? &quot;

I guess if not today then eventually. They have been saying for some time now to the rest of the world u better get it in gear. Their own internal demands alone will eventually cause them to &quot;short&quot; the world market.

They have simply takin advantage of every REE opportunity over just about everyone else, plain and simple.

Now hopefully the U.S. and others can make a popping sound, the sound u hear when someone has pulled their head outta their azz.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; This is one final question: has China overstepped by ‘stopping’ rare earth shipments however temporarily? &#8221;</p>
<p>I guess if not today then eventually. They have been saying for some time now to the rest of the world u better get it in gear. Their own internal demands alone will eventually cause them to &#8220;short&#8221; the world market.</p>
<p>They have simply takin advantage of every REE opportunity over just about everyone else, plain and simple.</p>
<p>Now hopefully the U.S. and others can make a popping sound, the sound u hear when someone has pulled their head outta their azz.</p>
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