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	Comments on: Seagate, Rare Earths And The Wrong End Of The Stick	</title>
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	<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/</link>
	<description>Commentary &#38; analysis on rare earths and other technology metals</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:47:37 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Eamon Keane		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1820</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eamon Keane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1820</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Gareth

I confused the 0.8 kt figure with your 3 kt figure, yeah the figures get very close to the USGS figures including the spindle magnets. The NdFeB figures on slides 45 and 46 are indeed off, the figures on slides 38-40 however are v. close to the USGS though.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Gareth</p>
<p>I confused the 0.8 kt figure with your 3 kt figure, yeah the figures get very close to the USGS figures including the spindle magnets. The NdFeB figures on slides 45 and 46 are indeed off, the figures on slides 38-40 however are v. close to the USGS though.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JOD		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1819</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JOD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1819</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great discussion here.  Does anyone have any predictions of other products - either within the consumer electronics industry or outside - which are next to see significant margin headwinds due to rising RE prices?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion here.  Does anyone have any predictions of other products &#8211; either within the consumer electronics industry or outside &#8211; which are next to see significant margin headwinds due to rising RE prices?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eamon Keane		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1818</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eamon Keane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1818</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Rlacal &#038; Boris

The current issue of Renewable Energy Focus has a review of 2010 wind production (online.qmags.com/REW0511). Total installations last year were 37.64 GW of which offshore represented 1.16 GW. Half of all wind turbines were installed in China (18.9 GW) with the US in second place with 14.9% (5.6 GW) and much of the rest in European countries.

The technology trends section is dominated by permanent magnets, although Winergy trumpets its &#039;HybridDrive&#039; tech which combines a gearbox and permanent magnets which only uses 20% of the REs that a full direct drive turbine uses. 

In its Wind Energy Outlook section on the subject of direct drive the magazine states:

&quot; Most turbines use a gearbox to increase the generator speed, but they are prone to failure and increase the mass of the turbine. A number of manufacturers have replaced gearboxes with a single, large-diameter generator which, combined with a converter, can be connected to the grid but this is not without its own challenges. Both the cost and the weight of this option currently exceed the more conventional gearbox designs. However, this approach is very promising, particularly if permanent magnets become cheaper and more powerful, lighter materials are introduced, and converters become more versatile. Direct drive options will become cost-competitive towards 2020, and are likely to become dominant.&quot;

According to the REN 21 Renewables Status Report 2011, direct drive turbines had 18% of the market in 2011: (ren21.net/Portals/97/documents/GSR/REN21_GSR2011.pdf)

&quot;Direct-drive turbine designs captured 18% of the global market, led by Enercon (Germany), Goldwind (China), and Hara XEMC (China). Preferred turbine sizes were 2.5MW in the U.K., 1.4 MW in China, and 1.2 MW in India. Globally, the average turbine size increased to 1.6 MW, up from 1.4 MW in 2007. Vestas launched the largest commercial turbine thus far, the dedicated offshore V164 7 MW turbine, targeting North Sea opportunities.&quot;

Enercon (7% market share 2011) use RE-free electromagnets in their direct drive, it&#039;s less clear what the breakdown of the remaining 11% of direct drive installations were, but a reasonable guess for 2011 RE containing installations might be 10%. If an average Nd2O3 content of 0.2 kt /GW is assumed (slide 48 of Christian Hocquard, adjusted from Nd content), although you will find higher estimates, then 2010 RE demand from wind turbines was 0.75 kt Nd2O3 (37.64*0.2*0.1). This would give wind about a 3% share of Nd + Pr demand. As RLacal states 2-3% seems a reasonable guess as Dy content, so that would equate to about 62.5 tonnes Dy or 4.2% of Dy output (1.5 kt in 2010).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Rlacal &amp; Boris</p>
<p>The current issue of Renewable Energy Focus has a review of 2010 wind production (online.qmags.com/REW0511). Total installations last year were 37.64 GW of which offshore represented 1.16 GW. Half of all wind turbines were installed in China (18.9 GW) with the US in second place with 14.9% (5.6 GW) and much of the rest in European countries.</p>
<p>The technology trends section is dominated by permanent magnets, although Winergy trumpets its &#8216;HybridDrive&#8217; tech which combines a gearbox and permanent magnets which only uses 20% of the REs that a full direct drive turbine uses. </p>
<p>In its Wind Energy Outlook section on the subject of direct drive the magazine states:</p>
<p>&#8221; Most turbines use a gearbox to increase the generator speed, but they are prone to failure and increase the mass of the turbine. A number of manufacturers have replaced gearboxes with a single, large-diameter generator which, combined with a converter, can be connected to the grid but this is not without its own challenges. Both the cost and the weight of this option currently exceed the more conventional gearbox designs. However, this approach is very promising, particularly if permanent magnets become cheaper and more powerful, lighter materials are introduced, and converters become more versatile. Direct drive options will become cost-competitive towards 2020, and are likely to become dominant.&#8221;</p>
<p>According to the REN 21 Renewables Status Report 2011, direct drive turbines had 18% of the market in 2011: (ren21.net/Portals/97/documents/GSR/REN21_GSR2011.pdf)</p>
<p>&#8220;Direct-drive turbine designs captured 18% of the global market, led by Enercon (Germany), Goldwind (China), and Hara XEMC (China). Preferred turbine sizes were 2.5MW in the U.K., 1.4 MW in China, and 1.2 MW in India. Globally, the average turbine size increased to 1.6 MW, up from 1.4 MW in 2007. Vestas launched the largest commercial turbine thus far, the dedicated offshore V164 7 MW turbine, targeting North Sea opportunities.&#8221;</p>
<p>Enercon (7% market share 2011) use RE-free electromagnets in their direct drive, it&#8217;s less clear what the breakdown of the remaining 11% of direct drive installations were, but a reasonable guess for 2011 RE containing installations might be 10%. If an average Nd2O3 content of 0.2 kt /GW is assumed (slide 48 of Christian Hocquard, adjusted from Nd content), although you will find higher estimates, then 2010 RE demand from wind turbines was 0.75 kt Nd2O3 (37.64*0.2*0.1). This would give wind about a 3% share of Nd + Pr demand. As RLacal states 2-3% seems a reasonable guess as Dy content, so that would equate to about 62.5 tonnes Dy or 4.2% of Dy output (1.5 kt in 2010).</p>
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		<title>
		By: RLacal		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1817</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RLacal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:43:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1817</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Boris
I cannot tell exactly the magnet grade used in LS-PMG, but the figures that we are using, from Shin Etsu and TMR, suggest 2- 3% Dy.

In wind turbines electricity generators can have a cooling system. I suppose that there is a trade-off here: magnets with higher Dy content are more expensive but dispose of the a cooling system resulting in system savings (also efficiency savings), but if the price of those magnets goes up strongly then the cooling system is cost-effective.

Roberto]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Boris<br />
I cannot tell exactly the magnet grade used in LS-PMG, but the figures that we are using, from Shin Etsu and TMR, suggest 2- 3% Dy.</p>
<p>In wind turbines electricity generators can have a cooling system. I suppose that there is a trade-off here: magnets with higher Dy content are more expensive but dispose of the a cooling system resulting in system savings (also efficiency savings), but if the price of those magnets goes up strongly then the cooling system is cost-effective.</p>
<p>Roberto</p>
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		<title>
		By: Boris		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1816</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1816</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@RLacal: Would you know if magnets used in LS-PMG&#039;s are high temperature ones (dysprosium containing, some 5 to 7 wt.%)? If so, then LS generators would use some impressive 25% of annual Dy metal production.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@RLacal: Would you know if magnets used in LS-PMG&#8217;s are high temperature ones (dysprosium containing, some 5 to 7 wt.%)? If so, then LS generators would use some impressive 25% of annual Dy metal production.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RLacal		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1815</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RLacal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1815</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I must correct the figures above: the 600 kg/MW is not Nd but magnet content.

Accordingly:
Goldwind - 2650 t of PM = 800 t of Nd content
Other LS-PMG manufacturers - 240 t of Nd content
Other PM, not LS - 110 t of Nd content
Total 2010 wind industry permanent magnet generators - 1250 t of Nd

I realised of this mistake as I reviewed Arnold Magnetic&#039;s presentation mentioned by Eamon. There Mr Constantinides states that 95% of the Chinese wind turbine installations in 2010 were using PM generators. This is not correct as e.g. the only one of the top-4 manufacturers using PMG is Goldwind. Sinovel (AMSC design), Dongfang (REpower design) and United Power (Aerodyn design) use electromagnets.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must correct the figures above: the 600 kg/MW is not Nd but magnet content.</p>
<p>Accordingly:<br />
Goldwind &#8211; 2650 t of PM = 800 t of Nd content<br />
Other LS-PMG manufacturers &#8211; 240 t of Nd content<br />
Other PM, not LS &#8211; 110 t of Nd content<br />
Total 2010 wind industry permanent magnet generators &#8211; 1250 t of Nd</p>
<p>I realised of this mistake as I reviewed Arnold Magnetic&#8217;s presentation mentioned by Eamon. There Mr Constantinides states that 95% of the Chinese wind turbine installations in 2010 were using PM generators. This is not correct as e.g. the only one of the top-4 manufacturers using PMG is Goldwind. Sinovel (AMSC design), Dongfang (REpower design) and United Power (Aerodyn design) use electromagnets.</p>
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		<title>
		By: RLacal		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1814</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RLacal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1814</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nd used in wind turbines installed during 2010.

The major manufacturer of wind turbines with low-speed permanent magnet generators (LS-PMG) is Goldwind from China which installed 3.735 MW in 2010 (Source: Chinese Wind Energy Association, http://www.cwea.org.cn/upload/2010?????????.pdf). Assuming 600 kg of Nd/MW this results in 2.650 t of Nd oxide for Goldwind only.

Other significant LS-PMG wind turbine manufacturers include GE Energy (its 2.5MW machine mainly), Clipper, and licensees of the Vensys technology. I don&#039;t have 2010 data but I roughly assume that these machines could add a 30% extra, i.e. 800 t Nd.

Other PMG used in the wind industry (e.g. by Siemens) are medium- and high-speed (i.e. from 100 to 1800 RPM), and require 1/10th of the magnet content per MW than LS-PMG require. Again a rough estimate is that in 2010 MS/HS-PMG could add 350 t of Nd demand.

The total 2010 Nd demand for the wind industry could be therefore 3.800 t.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nd used in wind turbines installed during 2010.</p>
<p>The major manufacturer of wind turbines with low-speed permanent magnet generators (LS-PMG) is Goldwind from China which installed 3.735 MW in 2010 (Source: Chinese Wind Energy Association, <a href="http://www.cwea.org.cn/upload/2010" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.cwea.org.cn/upload/2010</a>?????????.pdf). Assuming 600 kg of Nd/MW this results in 2.650 t of Nd oxide for Goldwind only.</p>
<p>Other significant LS-PMG wind turbine manufacturers include GE Energy (its 2.5MW machine mainly), Clipper, and licensees of the Vensys technology. I don&#8217;t have 2010 data but I roughly assume that these machines could add a 30% extra, i.e. 800 t Nd.</p>
<p>Other PMG used in the wind industry (e.g. by Siemens) are medium- and high-speed (i.e. from 100 to 1800 RPM), and require 1/10th of the magnet content per MW than LS-PMG require. Again a rough estimate is that in 2010 MS/HS-PMG could add 350 t of Nd demand.</p>
<p>The total 2010 Nd demand for the wind industry could be therefore 3.800 t.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Boris		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1813</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 07:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1813</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Gareth Hatch: in a desktop PC a Matsushita spindle motor magnet was 30/26x5 (all mm). So with density of 6 =&#062; 5,27 g. Assuming that spindle motors for PC&#039;s do not differ sizewise by much, your 6 g estimation fits.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gareth Hatch: in a desktop PC a Matsushita spindle motor magnet was 30/26&#215;5 (all mm). So with density of 6 =&gt; 5,27 g. Assuming that spindle motors for PC&#8217;s do not differ sizewise by much, your 6 g estimation fits.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gareth Hatch		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1812</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gareth Hatch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1812</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Eamon Keane: excellent data points, as always :-) I&#039;ve read estimates of anything from 22-25 kt Nd + Pr required for Nd-Fe-B-based magnets, so the USGS numbers sound about right. Note that my rough estimate of 3,000 t Nd2O3 did not include the use of Nd + Pr in the spindle motor magnets. To be honest I&#039;m not sure how much they weigh, but if they weighed the same as a 6 g sintered magnet, then we&#039;re at 6,000 t Nd2O3 (actually (Nd,Pr)2O3) required, which would put us at around 25% of total usage per the USGS report. That&#039;s not far off the 30% estimate in the Hocquard PDF.

Speaking of which - what do you make of the tonnages in slides 45 and 46 of that PDF, for REOs in Nd-Fe-B magnets? They&#039;re off, aren&#039;t they?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eamon Keane: excellent data points, as always :-) I&#8217;ve read estimates of anything from 22-25 kt Nd + Pr required for Nd-Fe-B-based magnets, so the USGS numbers sound about right. Note that my rough estimate of 3,000 t Nd2O3 did not include the use of Nd + Pr in the spindle motor magnets. To be honest I&#8217;m not sure how much they weigh, but if they weighed the same as a 6 g sintered magnet, then we&#8217;re at 6,000 t Nd2O3 (actually (Nd,Pr)2O3) required, which would put us at around 25% of total usage per the USGS report. That&#8217;s not far off the 30% estimate in the Hocquard PDF.</p>
<p>Speaking of which &#8211; what do you make of the tonnages in slides 45 and 46 of that PDF, for REOs in Nd-Fe-B magnets? They&#8217;re off, aren&#8217;t they?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eamon Keane		</title>
		<link>https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/seagate-rare-earths-and-the-wrong-end-of-the-stick/#comment-1811</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eamon Keane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jul 2011 18:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.techmetalsresearch.net/?p=4055#comment-1811</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Gareth Hatch

Great informative article. Thanks for the reference, I&#039;ll concede to your point on dysprosium :-) !

Good idea on working out bottom up Nd demand, but the figure for 0.815 kt Nd2O3 demand from HDDs. The recent USGS report (based on 2008 estimates) gives as 24 kt the amount of Nd (18) and Pr (6) used in NdFeB magnets. pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2011/5094/pdf/sir2011-5094.pdf

Separately slide 45 of Christian Hocquard&#039;s presentation last year gave HDDs a 30% share of the NdFeB market. (pdf direct download): ifri.org/downloads/comptes_rendu/fichiers/51/hocquard.pdf

This would suggest demand of 7.2 kt of Nd + Pr demand (24*0.3). Assuming the figures are right for your home PC market, perhaps the much more significant demand comes from the corporate/server market, which is where most information is stored. Indeed the current approach of server farms to increase the speed of data retrieval from HDDs is to use short-stroking (storing data on the outside tracks of the HDD to limit the distance the hard disk drive has to travel). This will use more NdFeB per GB stored and will tend to be reduced by hybrid data storage which can use SSD for the most frequently accessed data and use &quot;full-stroking&quot; for cold data.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Gareth Hatch</p>
<p>Great informative article. Thanks for the reference, I&#8217;ll concede to your point on dysprosium :-) !</p>
<p>Good idea on working out bottom up Nd demand, but the figure for 0.815 kt Nd2O3 demand from HDDs. The recent USGS report (based on 2008 estimates) gives as 24 kt the amount of Nd (18) and Pr (6) used in NdFeB magnets. pubs.usgs.gov/sir/2011/5094/pdf/sir2011-5094.pdf</p>
<p>Separately slide 45 of Christian Hocquard&#8217;s presentation last year gave HDDs a 30% share of the NdFeB market. (pdf direct download): ifri.org/downloads/comptes_rendu/fichiers/51/hocquard.pdf</p>
<p>This would suggest demand of 7.2 kt of Nd + Pr demand (24*0.3). Assuming the figures are right for your home PC market, perhaps the much more significant demand comes from the corporate/server market, which is where most information is stored. Indeed the current approach of server farms to increase the speed of data retrieval from HDDs is to use short-stroking (storing data on the outside tracks of the HDD to limit the distance the hard disk drive has to travel). This will use more NdFeB per GB stored and will tend to be reduced by hybrid data storage which can use SSD for the most frequently accessed data and use &#8220;full-stroking&#8221; for cold data.</p>
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